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Pros and cons of EU membership

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Pros and cons of EU membership

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Cymru
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« on: May 21, 2009, 19:53:22 »

Please list the pros and cons of EU membership.

Right I'll start.

Pro:
It protects minority cultures and languages and allows small nationless-states the opportunity to become viable independent nations within the EU.

Con:
To survive these small states will likely have to rely on the bigger EU states financially, so if economic and financial dependence upon others is regarded as being the complete opposite of true independence you might as well say that these small states aren't truly independent at all and are no better off than when they were part of the country they broke off from.

The whole point of this thread is to try and reach a general consensus amongst members of the forum as to whether or not the EU is fundamentally good or bad, needs reforming or left as it is, should be withdrawn from or should stay in it, etc.

It's no good just saying that the EU is good or bad, needs reforming or should be left as it is, should be withdrawn from or stayed in, etc. I want people to form their opinion on all these things after reasoned debate from listing what you think are the pros and cons of EU membership.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 19:58:44 by Cymru »  

Unlimited use of limited resources is unsustainable.

Economic well-being is measured by economic growth, the more growth the better the economy. Even low growth is deemed to be a failure.

To encourage this growth we have consumerism, an economic order that promotes the purchase of goods and services in ever-greater amounts. This in turn is reinforced by a mainstream culture which encourages us to be materialistic and demand what we want rather than what we need.

The result of all this of course is resource depletion as goods and services don't come from thin air. The more demand from consumers, the more non-renewable resources are exhausted to satisfy this demand, the less there is for the future.

This depletion economics might make sense to people with short-term monetary interests, but in the long-term all it means is that eventually there will be nothing left to profit from.

This is one of my biggest concerns along with human overpopulation, the lack of local food, water and energy security, a unipolar world order, and the economic and cultural globalisation that undermines national sovereignty and attacks human cultural diversity.

"When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you canít eat money." - Alanis Obomsawin.
Rich
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 20:10:08 »

I CANNOT for the life of me see your reasoning Cymru, the eec was created as a supposedly free trading zone between European countries/nations, as we are all aware we now know that we were lied to big time, I myself was under the impression that a federal European republic was to be created in order to prevent another (ww2).
so, we have 2 points of view, both of which have failed dismally in their aims, what is the point of putting money into the kitty and asking for it back in the shape of a grant? who is daft enough to deposit money with a bank and then ask if you can have SOME back please?

How did we survive without it? very well, imo, it seems that the more you contribute, the more others recieve, I have no problem with being charitable, but not at the cost of my own country, I have read comments regarding how well Birmingham is doing, thanks to Brussels granting us a fraction of our own money, but ffs, if we had a decent enough, British orientated government we would not be going through this charade of supposedly being good Europeans

Frankly the whole idea gets on my tits!!!!. AS far as PRO'S GO.... NONE, AS FAR AS CON'S GO.... YES IT IS.

Rich.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 20:12:52 by Rich »  

When I was a young lad, I said to my mum, can I have a shilling please?
She replied, "why should I give you a shilling?"
I said because I am good mum, she then retorted, why can't you be like your Dad and be good for nothing.
johnofgwent
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2009, 20:05:50 »

Pro's - NONE

Con's

The whole thing was a con - put forward as a trading partnership and sold to us on that basis, whilst the truth on page 1 of the 1957 treaty was that it was a committment to a federal union.  This is well known, but that fact itself is not my point in this thread. The point i wish to make for this thread is that such doublespeak, such blatant lies to whole populations, such arrogance on the part of politicians who feel that they can ride roughshod over the the population, does not bode well for any sort of meaningful relationship between the governing and the governed. And to be honest with you, every other problem I have with this morally bankrupt, money grubbing, corrupt organisation stems from that original arrogance
 

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Time to remind people of the http://www.ukdebate.co.uk/forums/forum_rules.php page perhaps ?
Rich
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2009, 20:09:56 »

Pro's - NONE

Con's

The whole thing was a con - put forward as a trading partnership and sold to us on that basis, whilst the truth on page 1 of the 1957 treaty was that it was a committment to a federal union.  This is well known, but that fact itself is not my point in this thread. The point i wish to make for this thread is that such doublespeak, such blatant lies to whole populations, such arrogance on the part of politicians who feel that they can ride roughshod over the the population, does not bode well for any sort of meaningful relationship between the governing and the governed. And to be honest with you, every other problem I have with this morally bankrupt, money grubbing, corrupt organisation stems from that original arrogance

Good ol' Ted Heath, may he NEVER rest in peace, the lying b'stard.

Rich.
 
papasmurf
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2009, 09:41:45 »

I only have to notice who is anti-Europe for me to be pro Europe.
Does no-one else find it odd that there is never ANYTHING pro Europe in the media. The BBC only does local news, British news, and World News, (mainly American) There is no Europe section on their text of web pages.
Big business being anti-Europe is a main reason for me being pro Europe. The other main reason is it appears to me that people of modest means get a far better deal in Europe than they do in Britain.
 

Tories are like Hells Angels, they only represent 1%.
johnofgwent
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2009, 18:35:45 »

The other main reason is it appears to me that people of modest means get a far better deal in Europe than they do in Britain.

Well, I used to be in favour of the idea of a single european currency. And I freely admit that the main reason for that was the insane things that happenned when you tried to work in europe and bank your loot at home. I had the pleasure, briefly, for doing some work for NATO's technical centre and for a laugh I got someone to get me a bag of ECUS like these whose legality as tender I never QUITE understood in payment of one of my smaller invoices (No I don't know where the hell they got them from but since most of the buggers i was working for had diplomatic immunity i did not ask) and then I turned up at HM Customs and Excise Portcullis House Cardiff and said ere mate what the **** am I supposed to do with these bloody things these frog buggers have handed me for work I did for 'em

I WISH to god I'd had a camera on me the guys face was a picture they knew not what the hell to do with them. Neither did my banks LONDON head office.  I handed 'em back and got a cheque in francs

But the problem was I almost faced the same uphill struggle when I got paid in euros for a small job done in france just after the currency went live. And the charges they chucked at me for making them accept euros (!)

Then I found out that it was one set of rules for france and germany when they failed to adjust their interest rates to suit the central bank, and another for ireland. That cooled my enthusiasm.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 18:37:25 by johnofgwent »  
Rich
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2009, 18:40:05 »

Well, I used to be in favour of the idea of a single european currency. And I freely admit that the main reason for that was the insane things that happenned when you tried to work in europe and bank your loot at home. I had the pleasure, briefly, for doing some work for NATO's technical centre and for a laugh I got someone to get me a bag of ECUS like these whose legality as tender I never QUITE understood in payment of one of my smaller invoices (No I don't know where the hell they got them from but since most of the buggers i was working for had diplomatic immunity i did not ask) and then I turned up at HM Customs and Excise Portcullis House Cardiff and said ere mate what the **** am I supposed to do with these bloody things these frog buggers have handed me for work I did for 'em

I WISH to god I'd had a camera on me the guys face was a picture they knew not what the hell to do with them. Neither did my banks LONDON head office.  I handed 'em back and got a cheque in francs

But the problem was I almost faced the same uphill struggle when I got paid in euros for a small job done in france just after the currency went live. And the charges they chucked at me for making them accept euros (!)

Then I found out that it was one set of rules for france and germany when they failed to adjust their interest rates to suit the central bank, and another for ireland. That cooled my enthusiasm.

That cooled my enthusiasm

We ALL live and learn.........eventually.

Rich. Thumbs up
 
voice
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Pros and cons of EU membership
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2009, 22:34:13 »

Pros; none.

Cons; European dictatorship (eventually).

I thought that as this was my first post (apart from the introduction) I would keep it simple. Grin Wink

 

Iíve lived a life thatís full. Iíve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, Iíve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.
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